The Television Discussion Thread

[Hathaway Standalone]

I watch...Mondays, Jon and Kate Plus 8; Tuesdays, The Biggest Loser and 18 Kids and Counting. Along with random other current shows and old ER episodes on the side. Down with no Doug Ross!

[Queen Swanwhite]

Gandalfs Beard - No, Castle is not a deep show. Never said it was. That's not it's point. However, where Dollhouse fails is not with what it's trying to get at. It is certainly a really fascinating and interesting concept. The problem is how it's being done.

The plot is not cleanly established and there are way too many stand-alone episodes. You can't really related to the characters all that well. The two characters who I actually found fascinating and interesting were Boyd (who we hardly see anymore) and Claire Saunders (who is a little less interesting now that we know who she is).

I dislike the character of Caroline, and there's nothing to relate to about Echo. She's an empty shell who has bits and pieces of other (usually dead) people in her. When we first met her, all we knew of her was just this empty shell roaming around, pretending to be people. We needed some kind of constant that provided something that was easier to relate too.

And Ballard is just awful. He's creepy in his obsessiveness about certain things, and horrid in the way he just brushes other things off. I cannot stand the guy. He claims to care for Caroline and yet he manipulates Echo into furthering his own personal goals (helping the FBI, bringing the Dollhouse down, etc.). Note: I am not saying I agree with the Dollhouse. What I am saying is I disagree with manipulating people who don't understand to do what you want.

The show is decent at best. The best episodes were the ones with Alpha, and the best episode period was Epitaph One. What this really needs is an over-arching plot that we can understand, not cryptic 1 minute exchanges between Ballard and Echo in darkly lit environments at the end of episodes.

To be good, a show needs good characters. They create the plot, ultimately. The problem is that there are few characters in the Dollhouse you can end up relating to. This is why I prefer Castle to Dollhouse (and indeed, every other show I watch). This is also why Joss Whedon's other shows (Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Angel, and Firefly) were vastly superior. They had a cast of believable characters who were very human and easy to relate to, and superbly acted. Eliza Dushku is not quite up to the task before her. Sometimes she does well, but it's not on a steady basis. As I said, the most believable characters are Boyd and Claire, and Topher and Adelle are pretty believable as well.

Not meant to be a rant, sorry, nor do I mean to chastise you or whatever for watching and liking the show. Everyone has different opinions, and I think it's great that you like it. I, personally, am not it's biggest fan (but I do keep watching, hoping it will get better), but that doesn't mean I don't derive any enjoyment out of it. I just happen to like other shows better.

[stargazer]

Tonight's episode of FlashForward - which included a numerical explanation for the length of the blackout (which may or may not be true) - that reminded me of LOST season 2, where the 108 minutes was the sum of 'the numbers', as well as an interesting possible link to previous blackouts - featured a guest role by Gina Torres, Zoe in Firefly.

There were also ads for the new ABC series V which premieres November 3. Firefly's Morena Baccharin (Inara) figured prominently in the ads, and imdb indicates that Alan Tudyk (Firefly, Dollhouse) also appears in the pilot.

[Valiant_Lucy]

Random thought about Flashforward: I perdict that Demetris and the girl (can't remember her name, the one who saw herself getting an ultra-sound) will end up togethor, and that he will be the father of her baby. At least, I don't want Demetris to end up with his fiance... Anyone else see something there...?

[lysander]

I wasn't exactly sure where to post this, but as of last Sunday the BBC's new miniseries of Emma has been playing in Great Britain. Has anyone else been following it? It's not supposed to be available here in the US until the Spring, but I watched the first episode online by means of questionable legality. I'm not entirely sure what to think about it—probably I had been too excited for it, and am now dealing with the backlash of that disappointment. I also made the mistake of reading this article before watching it, which makes all the little modern touches all the more grating. Still, it's sumptuously mounted, and some of my favorite actors are in it, even though I'm not sure they're ideally cast. I hope I'll be able to see Episode 2 soon.

[malkah]

I've been trying to follow Emma as much as possible until it comes out in the spring, but the parts I've managed to see (which isn't all of episode 1) just feel rather...flat? I was thinking that this adaptation might finally nail the book (and fill in what the previous two missed). As far as casting: both Garai and Gambon are wonderful actors, but not quite sure if they're the right people for the parts. And disappointed with the casting of Knightley; I was really hoping for Richard Armitage. Sets, locations, and costumes look beautiful, though, and Jane Austen, even when not ideally adapted, is still enjoyable.

lysander, are there a lot of lines from Austen still left in the screenplay? Sandy Welch doesn't have too impressive a record as far as using the author's dialogue, so I was curious.

And that article is just When will people understand that Austen does not need to be "modernized"?

starkat, I'll be interested to hear what you think of the rest of Robin Hood season 3!

Kate, I dislike Isabella as well.

SHOW SPOILER

I think at the beginning there was some interesting potential in her character, but she just grew more and more cliche as the season went on. What did you think of Guy's turnaround?

[Kate]

I was not aware that first installment in the new Emma adaptation was even available by err... questionable means, so I fished around and watched it myself. I like it very well. Garai has clearly softened Emma's character a great deal, but I like the connection she has with Knightly, even if it is a bit too teasing and he's a bit too open about her to Mrs. Weston. I also really like Gambon in the role of Mr. Woodhouse. I have thought at times that the British filmmakers need to get over the need to cast Gambon in every older man role in every period film, but he really fits here. He does the paranoid Woodhouse very well. Miss Bates was interesting. The writer did a wonderful job giving her lines in all the wrong places and she clearly took some vocal cues from Sophie Thompson.

I thought it was interesting how far they started back; showing Frank, Emma, and Jane as children and then inlcuding Emma in the orchestration of Isabella and John's wedding.

malkah: I kind of stopped watching. I'm not sure I got that far.
That article is very funny Ly. The professor seems to be someone who is likeminded to the purists here on NarniaWeb. She very correctly sites the wonderful Cranford adaptation. Are you having second thoughts about Garai as Emma?

What was with the"Jane, Frank, and I are bound to each other in a mysterious way." line?

[lysander]

The dialogue didn't really strike me one way or the other, malkah, but then again I haven't read the book in a very long time, and I watched both of the other movies first, so I think I may confuse what's in the book with what was in the two 90's adaptations. There are quite a few extra scenes, which means some extra dialogue, and in one or two other places characters said things I didn't find socially likely, such as speaking (loudly!) over the back of the pew during church! At least in the KK P&P Elizabeth and Col. Fitzwilliam are in the same pew and talking in hushed voices. I agree with you on the casting, especially Gambon. His screen presence is just too intelligent and hearty to work as Mr. Wodehouse. And though I've only seen clips of Armitage, he fits my idea of Knightley much more than JLM.

Would you like me to message you the link to the first episode?

Are you having second thoughts about Garai as Emma?

Sort of. She's my favorite part of it so far, besides the general look of the thing and Johdi May as Mrs. Weston (always wonderful!), but I find her performance a little over-the-top. She's an expressive actress anyway, which I know bothers some people, but it looks as though the director encouraged her in this regard a little too much and then used all the worst takes. Someone suggested that she's probably doing this on purpose, that she will change over the course of the episodes, and that the resultant character arc will be quite interesting. I do hope so, but so far I don't think this is my favorite of her work.

And that line is just head-bangingly annoying. It was the thing that bothered me most about the episode, along with the talking in church. It was so very random and out of character. And she'd already made her point in the prologue, so writing that line was just overkill.

[Kate]

His screen presence is just too intelligent and hearty to work as Mr. Wodehouse.

hehe. Wodehouse, eh?

I don't really like Armitage that much. I've seen North & South and I don't understand the obsession that some people seem to have with him. He probably would have made a better Knighley than Miller though. He just seems so unlikely.

[lysander]

Well, they're close enough, anyway.

I don't understand the obsession that some people seem to have with him

I'm not sure this is true with Armitage, but from my experience acting doesn't really matter when it comes to being a commercially successful Period Drama Hunk: one simply has to be tall, generally good-looking, and very, very good at brooding. But I think that at the very least Armitage has a much more authoritative presence than Miller. He's all right, but seems too much like "the boy who lives next door." I liked both Mark Strong and Jeremy Northam better in the role.

[malkah]

lysander, if you don't mind sending the link, that would be great!

then including Emma in the orchestration of Isabella and John's wedding.

They showed her matchmaking for Isabella and John?

And I agree with you; I'm not sure what the Armitage obsession stems from exactly. I thought he gave a very good performance in N&S, but he's not the first actor to do well in a period drama. It would have been interesting to see his take on Knightley, though. Oh well. I can think of worse casting choices than Miller.

[Bookwyrm]

I watched the first episode of Pushing Daisies last night. It's so adorable, in a morbidly humorous way. I absolutely loved it. And it's been canceled. For some reason, I keep becoming a fan of shows after they're dead and gone.

[TheGeneral]

Is Flashforward that show with Joseph Fiennes and everyone falls over in the preview? I've seen that preview so much, but never got around to watching it

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

TheGeneral, yes, that's FlashForward. Everyone on Earth blacks out for 2 minutes, 17 seconds.

Bookwyrm, Pushing Daisies is great, isn't it?
I've watched the first series so far - Here's my post about it: (bottom of page).
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=185&start=64

I'm currently watching the first series of Dead Like Me. It's pretty good so far (the acting, script, story etc.) but it could have less language and adult themes. Anyway, it's about a girl who's finished high school and is entering the workforce. She's non-committed and pessimistic (sort of like Daria) and hates life. Then she dies in a freak accident and finds her job in the afterlife is to become a grim reaper, where she helps the souls of people who've died due to accidents, murders or suicides. The grim reapers have to steal or find part-time jobs to get by. It's rather a pessimistic and silly view of the afterlife but it's more for creative licence than to discredit Christianity or other faiths. It's only in death, that the girl learns to 'live'. Dead Like Me deals with the taboo topic of death (in the West) in equal parts humour and respect. It's an interesting premise and very quirky. The series is a black comedy/drama. Recommended for older teenagers and adults.

[Kate]

I watched this week's installment in the Emma series. The story is shaping up nicely. I think we have just one more, right? I see what they mean now about adding more modern elements to the story. We get insights into how the characters are supposedly feeling that we didn't get in the book Like Knightley supposedly pining for Emma all along. Emma also behaves very badly at the ball and in general is too encouraging toward Churchill especially since she isn't really trying to encourage him to have feelings for her. I would go so far as to call her "silly," something that Miss Woodhouse should never be.

[lysander]

Interestingly, Kate, I thought the latest episode was the best yet. Certainly Romola's eye-popping and grimacing are less prevalent here than they were earlier. Despite the added subtext you mentioned in your spoiler, and the deletion of one of my favorite exchanges ('You have shown that you can dance, and you know we are not really so much brother and sister as to make it at all improper' - 'Brother and sister! no, indeed'), the ballroom scene was quite lovely. For once I have to agree with Miss Bates: it really did look like Fairyland. There seemed to be much more variety to the dances than in most JA adaptations, and the music was lovely.

The modern subtexts and attitudes continue to bother me, though, as does Welch's script in general. How massively overrated is this woman as a screenwriter! And really, while Romola has gotten better as it's progressed, it is nowhere near the best of her work, which saddens me because I've wanted to see her play this role ever since I saw her in Daniel Deronda.